tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29258368.post6091561022756693783..comments2023-05-24T10:15:01.371-07:00Comments on Cigars, Rum and Grace: Just Thinking Out LoudMarquitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15268683333363493574noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29258368.post-86722160642381754392007-02-24T10:36:00.000-08:002007-02-24T10:36:00.000-08:00In response to the comment about dinner with a Cat...In response to the comment about dinner with a Catholic friend:<BR/><BR/>It's amazing that someone could attend a church and not know that Salvation was made complete in Christ. I've also had similar conversations with Catholics, Independent Baptists, Presbyterians, Church of Christ followers, and Calvary Chapel members as well. It just shows how desperately we as believers need to KNOW what we believe, and 'love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul, mind and strength'.Marquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15268683333363493574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29258368.post-3868166163770706012007-02-24T10:26:00.000-08:002007-02-24T10:26:00.000-08:00I believe the Bible. Unfortunately, I think most ...I believe the Bible. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I think most people listen more to their pastors/priests then they do the Word of God. But, I think most Christians who actually read their Bibles and trust in God's Word as the well-spring of all truth, find the teachings of larger organizations moot and irelevant. I also think there are Christians who are like this in every single church and denominational group you can think of.<BR/><BR/>Belief is personal.<BR/><BR/>I think there are Catholics who are happy in their local parish, and that they are Christians, have assurance, and therefore understand the gospel.<BR/><BR/>I think there are Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc... who despite the wrong and imperfect nature of their organizational leaders, find peace and community in their home church.<BR/><BR/>I think if we each took the time to do so, we could find all kinds of heresies, blasphemies, wrong teaching in any given church, denomination, organization, etc... <BR/><BR/>I also think we would each end up in a church with a membership of 1. That may actually be the saddest church that could exist, and the one in most need of proper teaching on doctrine and our role in the body of Christ.Marquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15268683333363493574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29258368.post-12285837352944743092007-02-24T10:00:00.000-08:002007-02-24T10:00:00.000-08:00One night I went to dinner with a Roman Catholic f...One night I went to dinner with a Roman Catholic friend. I did not want him to feel that I intended to use our time together to try to convert him. I decided to treat it as a friendly time out. <BR/><BR/>Sometime during our conversation God opened a door to speak about salvation. Already in his early twenties, he had never heard in his life that God gave salvation for free to anyone who believed in Jesus. He never understood that Jesus paid for everything on the Cross and he could add nothing to it. That night, over dinner, he believed in Jesus. For the first time ever he realized that he could not earn heaven. He never heard that in the Roman Catholic Church. Ever. <BR/><BR/>Had someone not told him that night he might not have heard it yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29258368.post-79442312438209204462007-02-24T09:50:00.000-08:002007-02-24T09:50:00.000-08:00I hope no one will argue that we should 'hate' Cat...I hope no one will argue that we should 'hate' Catholics or conversely that Protestants can do no wrong. Both sin, have sinned, and will sin. But that's not the point. <BR/><BR/>Really, the essential issue = what did Jesus say. <BR/><BR/>Ironically, what the New American Bible—an official Roman Catholic translation— says about eternal salvation does not match up with the Vatican's own website! (Yes, Benedict XVI has a website — and an iPod too!).<BR/><BR/>According to the Catholic Bible you can have absolute assurance of eternal life by simply/only believing in Jesus for it. Jesus promises eternal life now to every single person who simply <BR/>believes the Father's promise/His own promise:<BR/><BR/>"Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3.17-18 (New American Bible)<BR/><BR/>In fact, Jesus promised eternal life, zero eternal condemnation, and a passing from spiritual death to eternal life the very instant anyone believes what the Father says about Him (i.e. He = the Messiah who guarantees eternal life by simply believing a promise).<BR/><BR/>Again the/a Catholic Bible:<BR/><BR/>Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life. John 5.24 (New American Bible)<BR/><BR/>The Vatican website on the other hand essentially teaches that God (at baptism) gives the baptized person Grace (i.e. what they need to cooperate with God for the attainment of eternal life):<BR/><BR/>"The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:<BR/><BR/>Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life."<BR/><BR/>Note: the words 'no one can merit' and 'we can then merit' appear in italics in the original. Clearly, for the Vatican (i.e. Roman Catholicism) Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross will not suffice to give you eternal life as a gift.<BR/><BR/>(see: www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/)<BR/><BR/>If you don't quite make it to heaven … no problem you can do spend some time in Purgatory:<BR/><BR/>"III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory<BR/><BR/>All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."<BR/><BR/>On the contrary, Jesus promises eternal life now (without works, without water baptism, without purgatory)<BR/><BR/>Real and eternally consequential differences do exist.<BR/><BR/>So … who do we believe the Vatican or the Bible?<BR/><BR/><BR/>AlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com